True CEO

Episode 25 - From Micromanagement to Macro Success

• LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes, Sonya Songer, Acacia Smith and LaVonne Shields • Episode 25

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Are you holding your business back by clinging too tightly to the reins? That's the central conundrum we unravel on the True CEO podcast, with LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes & Sonya Songer, where we dissect the 'control freak' mindset and its complex relationship with business growth. As an experienced CEO strategist, LaKeysha lends her expertise to this rich discussion, helping us uncover how the urge to control can be both a fortress and a cage for company leaders. We venture into the psychological roots of control, debating the implications of fear and identity entanglement in one's business. Plus, we don't shy away from the contentious debate over HR's tight grip on sensitive matters versus the liberation necessary for scaling operations. If you're ready to equip your team for success without stifling creativity, join us for a transformative conversation on empowering leadership.

This episode is not just a deep investigation into the balance of control—it's a roadmap to fostering an environment where predictability and stability meet focus and consistency. You'll discover the detrimental effects of micromanagement on company culture and the underestimated power of clear communication and Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs). Together with LaKeysha & Sonya, we explore the evolutionary journey from prioritizing loyalty to valuing adaptability and share our own experiences of making this critical shift. Whether you're a budding entrepreneur or a seasoned leader looking to refine your approach, this episode promises actionable insights to guide your company towards becoming a thriving empire. Tune in, equip yourself with strategic wisdom, and set your business on the path of exponential growth.

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Produced and Recorded by Randall Hayes.

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Sonya Songer:

Hello, welcome to an episode of the True CEO podcast where we delve into the intricate world of business dynamics. I'm Sonya Songer, your host and HR strategist, and today's discussion is a profound exploration into the delicate balance between control and growth. Get ready for a thought-provoking session as we unravel the impact of control tendencies on your business's journey to success. As always, we have with us LaKeysha Cobbs- Hayes, who is our all-around CEO strategist and expert, and she's going to get us started out on this topic by helping us understand the control freak mentality. Oh man.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

You know that's putting a lot of pressure over here.

Sonya Songer:

I mean, I said helping us understand. I didn't say that you were going to just throw it all out there, because of course, that's what this podcast is about is all of us sharing our opinions on these various topics.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

So Well, I mean, if we have to go ahead and define control freak in a business context, it technically refers to an individual who exhibits an intense desire to maintain authority and micromanage various aspects of their work environment, which is kind of crazy, because in one aspect you got your finger up.

Sonya Songer:

I'm just I'm not even going to lie to you guys, I'm not even going to do it. There are absolutely certain aspects of my roles in HR professional that I cannot help myself and I'm absolutely a control freak about.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

Based on that, based on that description of what control freak means in a business environment, and I think, in certain aspects, you do have to be a control freak, especially when it comes to delicacy situations. Right, you're dealing with delicate information, and so there has to be a protocol, there has to be something where you have a checklist hey, this is what's getting done, this is who this information is being shared with, this is how this information is being shared, and so I think, in certain aspects, yes, there has to be a certain level of control.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

However, when you are building your business, transitioning from working into, on your business, you've discussed this before also then that's where we're really looking at as far as business is concerned and I think that's where a lot of people get caught up is, if you want to grow your business, you have to let go, you have to allow people to come in, you have to allow for them to make those mistakes. You have to. You know for lack of a better word is you just have to be laxed and you have to say OK, I'm not the only person that knows how to do this job.

Sonya Songer:

Let go and let God For those that are religious. If you're not religious, let go and let Sam. I don't know. The point is that's, I think, a phrase that I hear quite often as just a basic descriptor of what you just said you have to allow individuals to make those mistakes because you can't take it all on.

Sonya Songer:

There's just no way those mistakes are going to happen probably tenfold if you are trying to do every single aspect yourself, absolutely, as opposed to getting other individuals and not being that control freak and allowing them to learn from their mistakes. So now it's just, you know it gets better and better.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

Well, I think, and there's also a psychology behind it, right? So there's reasons why you're not letting go, and some of them are you're afraid to fail.

Sonya Songer:

Right.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

If I give this to you, then I no longer have control and I no longer have ownership, and I think there's a discrepancy between what you're thinking about. Ownership, the language of ownership is I'm the owner, I take ownership of whether this ship you know it sells or it fails, right. But on the other hand, is you also take ownership of the people that you are in charge of, and that's what makes a huge difference. What's happening when you're taking charge of these people? The ownership looks different, and I think that's the part. I think that's the part like I didn't understand in this whole thing. So my ownership is not whether the project is successful. My ownership is whether I made the people in charge of the project successful.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

And gave them the tools to be successful Exactly, and gave them the tools to be successful, and I think a lot of business owners don't understand that. It's like, okay, well, they failed, so I failed and in a certain sense, yes, that's right. But the other part is diving deeper and say what did I do to equip this person to be the most successful person in this particular?

Sonya Songer:

round. And then I would even go further that, from an HR standpoint, did you allow your people to be able to take ownership of that task of that project.

Sonya Songer:

Because if they are not taking ownership, then how can you expect them to be engaged in their job? How can you expect them to take ownership at any other time, when things go left and you're asking questions to determine how to best address a situation, but nobody wants to step forward and take ownership for what went wrong. People are quick to write up their staff and say that you didn't take ownership. But were you a control freak in that situation? Did you offer them the proper tools and did you give them the leeway to be able to take ownership?

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

Absolutely, absolutely, which actually comes to the next part of this. I don't even know if you knew that was coming I didn't but the desire for predictability and so a need to alleviate all of the anxieties associated with the unpredictable nature of business, which is absolutely uncontrollable. You cannot predict every situation. You're going to hope and then also you're going to lean on what you know. But, as a new business owner, you can't lean on what you know because you don't know, you're not going to know until you do it. A friend of mine, we were having this discussion yesterday and she was saying like, hey, I like the aspect of putting all of the details together. So she's more on the operation side, she's more of the hey, come to me, when you are, you just want the information, and so, therefore, I'll build out all of your systems. And I was like, and that's amazing for people within their first one or two years, not so great for people that start to get into the third and fourth year, because you need that at first, because you don't know what you don't know. You need to get around people that know their profession. And there's always this thing oh, I don't have enough money, or I don't trust anyone, or right? There's so many different reasons as to why you don't have those people work with you first. The second part of that is, yes, you need that in the beginning the systems but you absolutely should not be operating and working in areas that is not your expertise. You either need to consult those out or you need to, you know, have somebody there. So it just depends on you know what your financial need is. But you can always bring in a consultant for Four to five hours a month, based on if you have the system set up.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

But what I was telling her is that's not so great and for people that's in their third or fourth year, because your first, your first year, your culture is based on you. It's everything that you think, you want, you desire for your company. But once you start getting into your third and fourth year, then your company culture starts to change and it starts to develop, starts to be about the people. So now that your company has evolved and then now is about the people, those basic templates are no longer going to work for you and you need to revamp them. So she's in a great business Because she'll always be there to help you revamp it and look for different ways on and new systems.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

However, there's other areas in which you need to know exactly what this is Right. We're going through a change now where HR it looks different for us right now. Things that I was just like, no, go ahead and take care of our things that I'm going no, I really want to see this, but that's also because I have a better Knowledge of business. That's also because I have things that I'm looking for to to build the business that maybe HR doesn't necessarily see or that our operations doesn't necessarily see. I'm the one driving the business, whereas when I first started, I was the one doing the business.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

I was in the back. There was no way that I can drive business and build it at the same time. And there's, there's like this big thing with that right now. It's when you first start right.

Sonya Songer:

So I Hope that everybody really heard that, because I think that was a very important thing that you said. There's no way to drive business when I'm trying to build business Right, and so this is a topic that we have come back to in so many of the different topics that we've discussed thus far in this podcast, which is knowing when to be able to remove yourself and Work on your business instead of in your business. I think that's such an important and key component to this whole control freak, you know scenario that we're posing to you guys today.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

And then they also the the next one, the next topic. They have under, like the psychology of being a control freak, especially in businesses, the compulsion that's rooted in your identity and self-worth right, and it's tied to your ability to maintain order and efficiency. Where, what is your identity? How do you identify? I mean, I know a lot of first generation business owners such as me. I've never seen another business owner there's no other business owners really in my family that I can go back and I can say, oh, I used to work with my aunt or I used to go here. There's no one that's there to teach me those things. And I think that's intricate. I mean, that's very specific and where you need to go as a business owner and Identify with those people that you can get around to then say, okay, I'm going to Model my business after these people, I'm gonna model my business after these people, but you're not gonna know until you actually get into it and then how to build your identity your identity when you first start as as an employee. So it's just kind of like, okay, well, I have these certain tasks, I work these certain hours, this is what I do, and so you kind of stick to that and, like you know For lack of a better word is just kind of like what the hell am I doing, right? Oh, you mean, I'm in charge, right.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

And then we start getting into imposter syndrome and just kind of like what, what, what? First of all, I never heard of imposter syndrome until I actually started in business. And then the second part is self-worth. I don't know myself worth and if you're anything like my business, you went from zero to six figures and then from six figures to seven figures, all within the span of three years. I don't necessarily know that I believe that I work, I was worth, that. I don't think that I personally did the work to get to that next step. You know, obviously I did the work to get to the next step, but how do you think you got there? How do I think I mean I got there by recruiting people, literally, I think that's probably why.

Sonya Songer:

So then and then that ties into you had to not be a control freak yes, in that scenario.

Sonya Songer:

And then that just kind of loops us back to this whole thing, because I think a lot of that, just like you were saying, in the psychology of it, when you are releasing that to other people but you have this tied to your identity, then you feel like you're allowing other people to be in control of what your identity is, and that's not necessarily the case. If you have that vision and I think that's part of like when we're coaching and consulting with new business owners and stressing how important it is for them to determine what their vision is for their organization, what their mission is, what are your core values when you stop being a control freak, if you have that in place, then you can ensure that those individuals even though if you still feel like it's tied to your identity, it's still tied there because you have those things in place and you're still conveying that to others that are able to take over those other aspects that you are not necessarily an expert in.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

And what ends up happening is you now have Stifle creativity, you have strained relationships, you've missed out on different opportunities and you're over there micro bandaging and trying to maintain authority. And nobody likes you and everybody's putting Probably high turnover too.

Sonya Songer:

yes, so it's not to say probably high turnover too, because if you're Stifling creativity, I mean you can pick any and every survey about employee engagement these days and a lot of them will say you're talking about a new generation of people that value the ability to have flexibility and creativity in their job and freedom right in their job. And that doesn't necessarily just pertain to wanting to work remotely right. That pertains to having that flexibility and freedom in their actual job and being able to make certain decisions and take that ownership that we were speaking to earlier in their role, so that they can be more engaged Right.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

And what I'm saying too, also just in this new age, I think. When we first started working it was just kind of like oh well, here's your job description. It might have said five or six things and we were just like, oh okay. And then they had that little caveat at the end that says and other duties, as a sign and people hate the end as other duties as a sign and HR people such as me love it.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

Right. So what I'm finding is you have to over communicate and as a new business owner, as someone within the first five years of your business, you don't know how to over communicate, you don't know what over communicating means. And then also, you may be overwhelming people by trying to over communicate, and that's not what they're asking for. They're asking for a clear, concise way of doing things. Where you don't even have a clear and concise way of doing things, hits while you're overwhelming people because you're not clear on what you need to do, because then you need to so you're just throwing in everything under the kitchen sink, yeah, and you're trying to continue to control, because you have not figured out a system for yourself, right?

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

So if I tell you what I'm doing and it's wrong, then guess what? I don't look like the fuck up.

Sonya Songer:

Indeed Right.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

So I don't want to do that, so then I may not even tell you. So now you can't do your job.

Sonya Songer:

Right, or you tell me too many things that are all over the place, that some have to do with their job and some of them don't, and some of them are kind of closely related, and then again you're moving into that control freak kind of mentality.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

So what are some things that you can do? You can, what are some things I know? Right, what are some things? That is a very good question. Some things you can do is you can have your SOPs together. You can consult with someone that's going to fulfill those areas that you're not an expert in. You can make sure that you're making time for yourself to really work on your business and and really drive your business and this may be you know where you're working 20% of your day is I'm going to focus on building my business.

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

I'm going to focus on those drivers. I'm going to look for key people that are going to help me sustain my business. Some of those people I know. One of the things I talked about really early on and I know is and I told my team is like in the beginning I needed loyalty and today I don't need loyalty. Loyalty is not a staple Right, I needed people to be there and to be loyal because I needed security. Today, I don't necessarily need loyalty. I need stability, I need focus, I need consistency, I need somebody that can come in and they can do their job, and so, once you switch over from the loyalty part into the consistency part and quality then it's going to now change how you look at your business and then also what you are not trying to control.

Sonya Songer:

Right. So, oh, very good points. So thank you for joining us on this enlightening episode of True CEO Podcast. Your time and attention are valued and we hope this episode has sparked contemplation about the intricate interplay of control and growth. If you enjoyed this episode, don't hesitate to subscribe, leave your reviews I think it's below and share with your peers. Until the next exploration into the world of business intricacies, stay tuned to the wisdom that shapes enterprises into empires. And so, with that again, Sonya Songer, I'm the HR strategist here. With True CEO, I also have my own HR consulting business, BossyHR. You can find me on all social media platforms, BossyHR, with the exception of Instagram, where I am Onlyb ossyHR. Keysha, where can they find you?

LaKeysha Cobbs-Hayes:

You can find me at Strategic underscore Behavior. You can find us at strategicbehaviorconsultantscom, where you'll be able to see what we're doing in our consulting business and True CEO and if you just happen to want to see me, and then you can go look me up at LaKeysha Cobbs- Hayes.

Sonya Songer:

And then, of course, we have all of our consulting services, as in our business venture of combined consulting services that are inclusive of overall CEO information, human resources, marketing and accounting. If you go to TrueCEOlife. com, thanks guys.